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- What I love most in life is 

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the possibility and reality of listening and talking.

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conversation with Alexander Pyatigorsky


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PART IV

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I first saw this architecture when I was 15 years old.

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Compared to the old Moscow alleys, it shocked me.


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It shocked me.

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I was 15 years old. I just returned from evacuation 

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and saw how they were just starting to be built. 

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This is, as it were, call it what you want,

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Stalinist neoclassical or neo-Imperial style.

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And there were still very few such tasks - for the whole of Moscow, maybe there were 20 or 25 of them.

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This war has not yet ended, but they  already was  building.

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There were several hospitals built in this spirit

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(On the Arbat already, by the way, where there were vacant lots).

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I then felt the enormous pretension of this architecture, 

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because it was, as it were, phenomenally merged 

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absolute power and comfort. However, it's not about you.

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That's another question. But! That's what you felt.

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That's where real people will live and they will be fine there, 

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but all this is inside the real authrity.  


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About terror. 2001.

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- The war was conceived as a war of entire states, entire countries, 

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entire nations with each other or a war of coalitions 

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of these states, countries and nations with each other,

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and peace as the absence of such a war.

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The horror of humanity in the middle of the XX century 

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can be summed up, as it were, is the horror of such 

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a new war of huge masses of the population with each other, 

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huge armies with each other.  

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And in this atmosphere of fear of war and 

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in the atmosphere of such a remarkable phenomenon, which marked the so-called

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the so-called  cold war, the war for peace, 

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we begin to meet with a gradual crystallization 

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of the change in the very concept of war. 

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After all, for pity's sake, often a war between states  

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turns into a war within a state, which, as it were, 

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 is not considered a war, just as the war  

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of the Stalinist regime against the population of Russia and the Soviet Union

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in the twenties and thirties was not considered a war, as, of course,  

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no one would have thought of calling 

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the bloody massacre in India in 1946 a war, which claimed a million people,

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or Pol Pot's brilliantly completed war with his population, 

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which he destroyed and no one moved a finger.

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No. This is not a war. And here it is interesting to ask a question:

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"Good. And what is it?" Of course, no one thought about it then, 

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because thinking is a disgustingly difficult thing that people prefer to avoid.

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The victim of state terror is ready. She's always ready.

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A person is ready to be killed, crushed by the state, 

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even before being arrested.

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It is already, as it were, programmed by the history of the 20th century, 

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in any case,  to what it will be.

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Therefore, this, ultimately, now, has become recognized as normal. 

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But it's one thing when the state kills a quarter of its population - 

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it's readiness. But this is not. That's horrible. This is terror. 

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Why the horror? Very simple. 

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It is much more difficult for the victim to be prepared for terror than for war.

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That is, to do this, the victim needs to start thinking.

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And the state framework gives a formal character, 

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as it were, fixes and consolidates this tendency of the majority 

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to suppress, and sometimes simply destroy the minority. 

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And what is interesting is that terror, which we are afraid of now, is worse than death,

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I would even say worse than war, because we must always be afraid of something,

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without this there is no normal psychological regime.  

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Terror is not just an alternative to the classic war.   

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Now we are already: "But no. We are not afraid that America will attack Russia and defeat it

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(or, I do not know who else), China will attack 

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the Trans-Baikal region there and defeat it, or other nonsense.  

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Now we are afraid that some small group of people   

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will attack a huge mass. And in this,  

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because of the reality of the average thinking person,   

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this is where the threat is visible, and the injustice is visible. 

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Namely, when everyone destroys the microgroup,  

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this is at least acceptable. When microgroups begin to threaten everyone,

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nothing can be worse than this.

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Therefore, I think that a thinking person of the near future, 
 
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if there is one, it is very difficult to think,  

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will have to, as it were, in this sense, in the sense of war and peace, 

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enter into some new thinking mode.  

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At the same time, it will be necessary to abandon some values   

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not only totalitarian, but also liberal.  

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Because, in this case, that is, in reaction to terror, 

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liberal ideology is as banal as totalitarian ideology. 

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Terror as a phenomenon is much more diverse than war as a phenomenon.

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And here, it seems to me, a real restructuring of social thinking,

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the social mentality of the average thinker, or rather, a non-thinking person, will be required. 

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That is, the danger, in this sense, turns out to be inherent,  

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inherent not in the psychological, social, ethnic, national  

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separation of one small group from another, 

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 but rather in the separation, quite natural, of one individual from another.

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In this I see a new source of terror. 

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And here is a possible source of terror, especially

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if we take into account the availability of the most complex 

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and subtle technologies not only to groups, but also to individuals.

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So we'll have to change. Individ is findless. 

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No cooperation of all idiotic states with each other

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(Replace "idiotic" - it's impolite), or continents with each other,

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or superpowers with each other in this fight against this terrorism will not help in any way.

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Here, I think, we will have to start with people changing themselves,

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with their very difficult mental, not just political, restructuring.  

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About the Orientalist Yuri Nikolaevich Roerich

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- He was born in the family of the famous Russian painter 

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Nikolai Konstantinovich Roerich and at the same time 

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he was also a great humanist (Do you know?)

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And a man, despite the isolation of tsarist Russia...

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(In general, Russia turns out to be isolated for some reason.

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I think that if Russia were magically, yogically compressed

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and, as it were, compressed and all moved to Luxembourg,

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then it would suddenly be isolated.)

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So, this was a man, literally, I believe,

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from birth with huge international connections. 

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That's how he was born, with connections. But he was nothing, of course, compared to his wife. 

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She was a woman of extraordinary talent, charm,   

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spiritual insight, breadth of interests and, at the same time...

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- ...beauty.
- I've already told you.

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... and at the same time, phenomenal mystical discoveries. 

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Well, and Yuri Nikolaevich himself, by the way,   

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apparently (he told me this in detail),    

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it's just that, compared to their family, the Romanovs   

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were some pathetic little things.. 

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It's a shame. Yes? What kind of people were there! And who ruled Russia?  

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That is, they were Rurikovich-Gediminovich,

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of course, seedy for a long time, over seedy.  

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But the deceased, I mean Nikolai Konstantinovich,  

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had world-wide ideas, and in general, even cosmic ones.  

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But after all, I read his and I read her. Elena Ivanovna.

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- Have you also read the letters to Elena Ivanovna?

- Also

- And the Mahatmas?

- Well, who hasn't read them?!

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Why are you wasting your time now? 

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You ask the hares, they know it. 

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Well, this is nonsense. It's all such nonsense! 

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And you know what? I've had some kind of

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unrealized acting fame all my life. 

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That's how I showed his brother

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at the table when he was talking to you. For example:

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"Svyatoslav Nikolaevich, would you like to eat now?"

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He's like this...

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"To eat. Yes, to eat. Yes. 

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As long as our spirit can't live without a body,  

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and the body can't live without food, then eat. 

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Only you know, me and my family, we don't eat anything carnal."

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He wanted to say that he is a vegetarian.  

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Well, do you have to kill me? What, should yo? Yes?

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But after all, what is not done is not done. No, in general, you can still do it.

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But why was I left alive after all? Also, really... yes.

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No, you know, I was furious when I was seeing him. 

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Firstly, I was not allowed to talk to Yuri Nikolaevich.  

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Do you also get angry when you can’t talk to someone?

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This is a person whose speech does not know... He is already in another incarnation now.

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- Svyatoslav?

- yes.

- Was he already in another incarnation then or is he now?


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- No, then he was in this, but clearly in the wrong. Because he had to be incarnated somewhere

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 in another part of the world, for example, so that I, in particular, would never see him 

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and there would be no temptation to speak so badly about him.


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He was a man of insane ambition, insane pride.

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But still, he used to draw beautiful pictures once.

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I love him, in general, some pictures.

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Everyone relied so much on Daddy (as he was called)

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that, well, of course... 

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No, besides, Daddy, that is, Nikolai Konstantinovich,

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 I think, seriously, based not only on what I was told about him,

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but what I read, he also had megalomania, obviously dangerous.

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Ambition turned into megalomania early.

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While his son, Yuri, had, simply, I would say,   

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 if there was a mania, then the opposite - a mania of complete non-greatness.

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No. He did indescribable things, Dad.

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- Well, for example?

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- Well, for example, (this is not for transmission, because just this, although I saw it with my own eyes,


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is another question) I read the famous proclamation of the Buddhists,

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where Lenin was declared a partial manifestation of the heavenly bodhisattva (I forgot which one). 

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I have no reason to believe that it was written by Nikolai Konstantinovich,

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but I think that it was written in the circle in which he was, his reputation was indisputable, 

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in that Russian-Mongolian circle, where he was also a Prophet without 5 minutes.

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About the influence of Yuri Roerich on others

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I'm with him... As soon as, you notice, when I talk about Yuri Nikolaevich, 

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then such expressions as "I'm with him"  

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are a bad manners, it's bad taste.

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When Yuri Nikolaevich was talking to me...

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Although I must say that Yuri Nikolaevich spoke in exactly the same tone 

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with this our Foreign Minister (and I saw him),

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with the doorman, with a stray dog and with me.  

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This is a man who shocked us not at all with any wisdom or scholarship,

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but that he physiologically could not speak differently to different people.

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He just spoke to everyone in the same tone.

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Even in this there was some kind of insulting monotony for us.

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I remember there was one graduate student, Monya,

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an indescribable idiot, who definitely wanted to talk to Yuri Nikolaevich.

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Мы думали: "О, Господи! Убить надо дурака". И вот, час, два... 

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We see him sitting. And also with us, smart and talented.

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It's annoying, isn't it? Also smiling, the same hand movements.

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You know, Yuri Nikolaevich has the ability to formulate this...

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no, to reformulate what we expressed in our language

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(but it's not interesting for the cinema) was absolutely brilliant.

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For example, we had one department head,  

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a completely ferocious anti-Semite. 

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And he, as it were, had to fail one Jewish graduate student.  

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Naturally, we ran to complain to Yuri Nikolaevich.

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His first reaction was: "Oh, well, I know Afanasy Ivanovich - 

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he is an cultured man, surprisingly sensitive. 

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Oh, is he a Judeophobe? It's impossible to believe, my friends."

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I say, "Yes, listen, the exam will be in an hour and a half and you will see."

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He says: "You know, I categorically do not believe in this,  

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but maybe, just for some kind of adjustment

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of the situation, I'll have a word with him."  

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There was such a knacker! And then, that's it. The graduate student passed.

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We surround Yuri Nikolaevich. He says, "Well, you were deeply wrong!


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He is a man with wonderful, alas, insufficiently developed potentials." 

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It's a bodhisattva without five minutes, but that's the only way...

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"Ah," he says, "his annoying anti-Judaistic prejudices

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may be explained by the incompleteness or insufficient refinement of his early upbringing."

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But, you know, when he talked to people like that, everything worked out and everything was done as he wanted.

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But imagine, you come to such a knacker  

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and for the first time talk to him not just as a bodysattva, but as simply not with shit.

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But when a person suddenly see in him a not fully realized bodhisattva 

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and not shit at all, what an impact it produces!

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After that he said: "Yuri Nikolaevich is not a man, he is a Saint! I saw a Saint!"

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So in Russia, as soon as a normal person appears, 

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rumors begin to crawl, 

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on the one hand, that he is an agent of GB, on the other hand, that he is a Saint. 

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- Which version do you follow? 

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- In relation to whom?

- In relation to Yuri Nikolaevich, is he a saint or from GB? Or maybe a Saint from GB?

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- No, it's also possible. I just, you see, since I have no direct connection with that world, it has not established yet...

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- Which one is it with?
- With the beyond world,  

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where can I get accurate information on this, 

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as well as any other one, then how can I know?  

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I can only say one thing, that he was a rare phenomenon.

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He was a normal person. Just normal. 

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But his impact on people was enormous!

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They say that after the first conversation with him in India, Nikita Sergeevich

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(it was he who begged him to come back)

260
00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:54.100
reproachfully addressed the writers who accompanied him: 

00:24:54.100 --> 00:24:59.900
"Look, what a cultured person! And what are you like?" 

261
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Nikita was shocked, just killed on the spot by Yuri Nikolaevich.

262
00:25:16.700 --> 00:25:20.900
It was as if he really saw a man with three tails

263
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that sparkled with gold, silver and emerald.